I had a scary dream two weeks before I was chosen – Oba Ajayi, Akarigbo-elect of Remo

The Akarigbo-elect of Remo in Ogun State, Oba Babatunde Ajayi, in this interview with TUNDE AJAJA, speaks about his journey to the throne, the culture and tradition of his people and his plans for the community

Before now, one could easily notice you were not the type to attach ‘Prince’ to your name. Did you ever use it?

Not even for once. Till date, all my friends and associates were shocked when they heard I had been chosen as a king because I never attached the word ‘prince’ to my name. They didn’t know and I really didn’t know I had a connection to the royal family too (laughs). My linkage to the throne that is very prominent is from my mother’s side; Olukokun in Makun lineage and it’s a direct linkage. Sagamu is an aggregation of so many towns. My maternal great-grandfather was a king; Ewusi of Makun. So, if you are talking about Makun, I would say yes, even though people are not really disposed to your ties with the throne when it’s your maternal side. But from my dad’s side, it never for one day occurred to me. I didn’t even grow up in the palace. However, as a young boy, I remember that my dad used to go to the palace a lot, and in my mind, I used to ask what this man could want that he liked to bother himself about these royal things. But it was something that made him happy and so we had to encourage him. So, the issue of becoming a future king didn’t occur to me until the demise of the immediate past Akarigbo of Remo land. It was when he passed on and the whole town was agog with my name that I had to ask what it had to do with me, and I was told that my dad was the head of the ruling house. I knew that much, but then somebody brought a copy of the Gazette to me and showed me that it was the turn of Torungbuwa ruling house, and that was it.

Sometimes people are compelled to contest while some obtain the form out of free will. What was it like in your case?

It was a bit different for me. I would say it was more of initial compulsion and then it later became a thing of will. The first person that had the courage to talk to me about it was the secretary of the ruling house. He called me and said the family was thinking of submitting my name, and I asked, as what? He said the Akarigbo. I asked him what made him think I was interested, and he explained that my dad said some things before he died. Always a polite person, I told him I would think about it. The next time he called, I didn’t answer his call. The next time he called, I blocked his number. That tells you how disinterested I was. The issue kept spreading and I remember I used to tell people close to me that if it were to be a tenured office and another person would take over after four years, count me in because I knew I could make a difference in four or eight years, but for the rest of my life? They should count me out. I wasn’t interested, but the news kept spreading. It was around summer time and I had already booked my ticket to travel abroad, so I travelled, and the news was all over that I had run away. But that also gave me an opportunity to reflect on it and I spoke to a lot of people about it. I decided I would stop telling people that I was not interested; I wanted it to ride on its own. I said I would put in minimal effort and see how it would play out. My life is so structured that I don’t bother myself with anything. At some point, I had to put myself in it and I worked hard towards it.

How did your wife and children receive it?

It was a different ball game at home. My wife was completely against it. My children were indifferent and it was how you tailored it to them that would determine what you would get. If that was what daddy wanted, they were fine with it. It took a long time for my wife to accept it. She knows I’m a very disciplined person and that we wouldn’t have any issue. On a lighter mood, since my wife and I got married, I used to tell her as a joke that she shouldn’t worry, I would deal with her if I become a king. I told her I would marry four wives (laughs). Then, it was all a joke, because I just wanted us to laugh about it. It was when the former king passed on and the whole issue of succession started that I knew my nexus to the throne.

We heard that 19 of you contested and out of the seven votes, five of the kingmakers voted for you. Did you see it coming?

That tells you it’s a divine arrangement and it’s remarkable. It’s rather ironic that I never saw myself as a future king. The seat of the Akarigbo is a huge position. I mean, we had 19 candidates, but when the announcement was made, it just ended like that; no litigation. It’s rare for there not to be litigations resulting from a kingship tussle. Of course, the acceptability was huge within the town but it was divine. All the candidates had either sent me a text or called to congratulate me and nobody said he was going to court. With that burden of expectation and trust, you think we will not deliver? All we need is resources and we will not disappoint them.

Looking at the number of contestants and the fact that Remo is big, comprising several communities, was there any prophecy that you would one day become the king?

Anytime the late Akarigbo saw me, he would always tell me, ‘Tunde, you better go and prepare for this throne’, and anytime he said that, I used to think it was all a joke because I used to wonder what my business was with the throne. But he did say it a couple of times, even publicly. But apart from that, when the race started around January, a younger friend whom I had not even seen in ages first prophesied that I would be king. The selection was already going on then. He said he dreamt and saw that I was walking around the community, without shoes, and people were pouring water on my feet and that there were people everywhere. I became curious and I asked what it meant. Somebody told me that was the traditional process of selecting a king, and it happened eventually. Two weeks ago, precisely, that was what happened; I was walking round the whole town without shoes, and people were pouring water on my feet. It was part of the rites.

At that time, did those prophecies give you some assurance that you would eventually become the king?

Beyond those two, I also had a scary dream two weeks before the selection and it came very close. I told my wife and a couple of my friends this dream. It was in the dream that I knew that it was settled. In the dream, I was walking in the company of some friends. Suddenly, something started coming from the sky and they all ran away. I was the only one who could not move. I tried to run away but I couldn’t. I was scared that it would land on my head and it looked heavy. I looked around but I couldn’t see any of my friends again. Suddenly, it landed in front of me. Lo and behold, it opened and a crown came out of it and landed on my head. I looked around, trying to yank it off so my friends wouldn’t see it, but I couldn’t. At that point, I was able to move. As I moved forward, my friends, who were nowhere to be found before, and other persons around just prostrated and shouted “Kabiyesi”. That was two weeks before the kingmakers announced their decision. That was so close to it, but in my mind, I felt it was all the hullabaloo of the process. I have noticed in my life that any association or club that I join, I would end up being the leader; that is just the way it has been. And I would give my dad the credit for the good name he built. It’s so rare to have unanimity about a person, but the story about my dad is that he was a good man. If you want to really know how good or bad you are, try and go into politics or try contesting to become a king. The story of your life will come out. I tell you that if my dad had been a bad person, it would have shown and even worked against me. But there are testimonies that he was a good man. It’s sad that he is not alive to see this happen, but I give the credit to him.

When people become kings, usually, they have to put their certificate on the side, for obvious reasons. Won’t you miss being an insolvency practitioner?

I would miss it. I have to be realistic, and I’m sure my colleagues would also miss me. All my life had been dedicated to insolvency, law and accounting, and I’m so well known in the field of insolvency. I don’t even know if I can still go and present papers now, because I love teaching younger ones the job. In Nigeria, we are just about three fellows of Insolvency International, known as INSOL, which is the umbrella organisation for insolvency practitioners all over the world; that tells you something. That shouldn’t be wasted, so I still hope that I probably would still be able to present papers. However, one is not getting younger and I’m at the age when one needs to look at what one could do for the people and I think that is one of the reasons I decided to take the offer. It’s the realisation that we can make a difference and help our people. I’m not in it for what is in it for me, definitely; what more do I want? But that I can make a difference.

Expectations are high from your subjects because they have not had a substantive king for about a year now. How do you hope to meet up?

Truly, the burden of expectation is so high, even though I try to manage the expectation by telling them it’s one after the other. But one thing I have assured them is that we will not be guilty of not trying. We will try, even if it means sitting down for days with the concerned people in power, we will, and people would see that we have tried. This community is so centrally placed that it ought to have moved beyond where it is. It is a community that is hugely blessed and very diverse. I have gone to Ipebi (Seclusion) and I have met organisations and groups across all sectors of our local economy. We will make a difference.

You were the Managing Partner of a thriving accounting firm, and you are also a lawyer. Why did you study accounting and law?

I studied Social Sciences at the University of Ibadan. I had always wanted to be an accountant, but I just needed a degree so I could get my horizons right. I deliberately didn’t go for accounting because the beauty of accounting is when you have a general knowledge. For example, if I want to hire someone, I would prefer somebody with a degree in another discipline and professional qualification in accounting than just someone who started with accounting. Having a different background gives you wider horizons, with due respect to my colleagues who did accounting. In the course of practising accounting, I knew I needed something much more, so, I landed in insolvency, which is a two-pronged profession – law and accounting. If you are versed in law, you need the accountant to sort things out and if you are versed in accounting, you need the lawyer to sort things out for you. So, I did both; I went to read Law, knowing that I would need it. After that, I did my Master’s in Law too. I like reading and I find it comfortable. As an insolvency practitioner, if there was litigation involved, I would hire a lawyer but I would look at the court processes myself. Take it from me; I’m well respected in both.

From being an elite to a traditional ruler, how easy has it been, given all the rites you have had to go through?

I’m not even bothered about rites, except you want to denigrate our tradition and culture. Really, it’s not a bad thing. There are different methods and modes of worship, even from time immemorial. I don’t have issues with that, but what I would even like to address is that as long as you know there is a higher being, who is God that oversees everything. Let’s give to the Agemo people what they deserve; the Oro people what they deserve; the Eleluku what they deserve; the Babalawos what they deserve and the hunters what they deserve. That is our system and we can’t forget our tradition, otherwise, we would be extinguished.

With all you have seen and gone through, do you share in the fears of people who feel culture and tradition would soon fade out?

People keep thinking that tradition would disappear, but I’m happy to note that it can’t disappear. When I was in Ipebi (seclusion), the number of young men and women that came to visit me, talk to me and recite Ifa (Oracle) blew my mind. I saw that our culture and tradition are going nowhere. It’s just for us to harness them.

We learnt there is Ifa School in Remo. Do you have any plans to harness it as a potential tourist site?

We want to have a system where we are involving a lot of younger people in it. We are not taking it for granted. We have groups and committees that would look into these things. Carry out an assessment in five years; we would have done a lot. May God keep us alive. We have a stream, Orisagamu Ewa, that should be a tourist centre. Those are some of the things we would look at. We won’t be the one to do it because we don’t have such funds or power, but we will meet people who could do it. The way people gave gifts to us when I was in seclusion was impressive and I felt if people could give this much, they deserve a lot from us. If it is land, we have it, we just need infrastructure.

Usually, traditional rulers are preoccupied with settling disputes. Is it something you look forward to?

It’s about trying to see myself as an administrator and delegating functions. I don’t expect that issue of arbitration is what I would be preoccupied with. It’s like a government. We have chiefs and we have a council that decides a lot of things; just push that responsibility to them, and of course with care. Don’t forget that the Akarigbo is the head of all the Obas in Remo, which is a huge responsibility. Delegating powers reduces the load and it gives room to concentrate on major things, which is the development of the community, including peace and cohesion. We have so many people from different walks of life here, and we have to harness that capital. Let’s concentrate on bringing development and investment to the town. That is what I think I want to focus on, otherwise, we would lose our bearings.

There have been calls for constitutional roles for traditional rulers. Do you align with that position?

If you had asked me months before now, I would say what exactly are they (traditional rulers) doing and I would have seen it as trying to aggregate power to themselves. But, honestly, my opinion has changed dramatically, not because I am now a monarch; I now know what is involved. That seclusion gave me serious opportunity to be able to assess the need of my people. I was able to see what areas they need intervention and I know that if given the opportunity, I would do something, in terms of delivering services to them. I think it’s a huge mistake to continue to neglect or refuse to ascribe roles to monarchs. I know it’s a difficult thing to sell, but if you really want to reach people and you want people to feel the benefit of governance, give them roles and they will deliver, as long as we have people of good character on the seat. I know I will deliver if I have the instruments to execute projects.

For those not familiar with Remo land, how would you describe this geographical area?

Remo is quite an extensive area. You would be shocked that Remo can actually pass for a state. It’s a huge geographical territory. There used to be 33 towns under Remo, but I’m told now that we have over 40 towns. And there are some of our towns that are now part of Lagos. Ikoroduused to be Remo, but civilisation has come and through state creation, some things have changed. Towns like Ogijo, Ogere, Imoren are all part of Remo. It’s a pity that due to the concentration on the Express road, people tend to just see Sagamu as Remo. Even our neighbours are using the Expressway as demarcation and it’s not so. The Expressway was created by government and we have to give right of way. The Ikorodu people know their affinity to Remo land. The Akarigbo of Remo is a powerful king that his territory even extended to Iddo in Lagos.

Do you have taboos in Remo land?

The beauty of Remo is that the respective towns have their separate identities. A food that is special in one town might be forbidden in another town, but it doesn’t make them enemies, and that is the beauty of tradition.

You look fashionable, but part of the sacrifices that come with your position is that you can’t go to certain gatherings again. Won’t you miss that?

I can go to parties, but I won’t be able to dance as I would have loved to (laughs). However, I would still have my friends. It’s part of the sacrifices. We (traditional rulers) are human beings and it is so difficult for you not to be able to enjoy yourself. I’m a disciplined human being and I know it won’t be an issue. If I feel like, I could call my friends and we could have an indoor get-together. When I was telling someone that I won’t be able to drive around, the person said yes and he joked that I can’t sit in the car when they are buying fuel (laughs) and I said is it that serious.

Now that you are the king, would you still take four wives, like you used to tease your wife?

(Laughs)  No, it was all a joke.

At your leisure, what are the things you like to do?

I love driving, especially good cars, but now, I can’t as I would have loved to. Beyond that, I love watching television and I love season movies, but the way I love it is if it’s already recorded so I could see about 11 episodes at a stretch. I play table tennis too and I’m quite good at it. My friends would disagree but they know I’m better than all of them (laughs).

We learnt that when you were announced as the Akarigbo-elect, it was the Alake of Egba land that led you to the governor. Is there any particular tie between Remo land and Egba land?

Let me clarify something. Egba and Ijebu provinces have always existed for long, but now we have four main formations in Ogun State, which are Egba, Egbado, Ijebu and Remo, and we all live together. On what you said that he ‘took’ me, you see, Baba Alake is a good friend. What happened was that immediately I was announced, I got a call that the governor would like to see me. Before then, I only knew him as my governor, he’s also a chartered accountant and I only knew him from the distance. For him to say he wanted to see me, after the announcement, was unprecedented. In fact, the first thing I was struggling with was the agbada I would wear. At the time, I think I had about two or three. I was accustomed to wearing a suit. I even asked someone close if I could wear a suit to the meeting, and the person screamed, jokingly, that I could not. Then, I remember I had one agbada. After that, I thought of who would come with me, I called a couple of friends. I called a friend of mine, who is from Abeokuta and I asked if he could join me, and he said yes and that he was even with the Alake (Oba Adedotun Gbadebo) and then I asked to speak with him. I told him (the Alake) the news and I told him I was going to see the governor. Then, Alake said he was coming with me. And it was a good thing for him to come with us, which was a good coincidence. I thank him for that honour. So, it was not the way people interpreted it. The Asiwaju of Remo land was the one who presented me to the governor.

The installation is approaching, and for now, it is an unfamiliar terrain for you. Are you a bit apprehensive?

I’m not apprehensive, I just want it to be over. Let’s get it done so we can get to work. In my life, I hate being the centre of attraction, but I can’t escape this one. I celebrate people, but I don’t host parties for myself. I just want to get it done, go back to work and start working from behind the scene. The committee in charge is doing its work, the government has been kind to us and the enthusiasm of the people is huge. It would go well, barring any rain and even if it rains, it is showers of blessing.

Sometimes, the rivalry for the stool starts from among siblings. How did your siblings take it?

There was nothing like rivalry among us. Besides, there is a considerable gap between us and the next person to me is a lady. I was the only child of my parents for about 10 years, so there was no issue. They are all happy with everything. In fact, they are happy now to be called prince and princess. They all weren’t using those titles before, but now they have been activated (laughs).